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CACI: Torture in Iraq, Intimidation at Home

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted November 21, 2006.


Dogged by serious allegations of human rights abuses in Iraq, a leading profiteer from the Iraq war engages in intimidation campaigns against journalists in America who seek to expose its practices.
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Consider the unique problems faced by the corporate suits at CACI International, a defense contractor whose services have included "coercive" interrogations of prisoners in Iraq -- interrogations most people simply call "torture."

Think about the image problems a major multinational corporation faces after becoming inextricably linked with the abuses at Abu Ghraib, a firm whose employees have contributed to the iconic images of the occupation of Iraq -- the symbols of American cruelty and immorality in an illegal war. What can a company like that possibly do to protect its brand name after contributing to the greatest national disgrace since the My Lai massacre?

CACI's strategy has been two-fold: its flacks have distorted well-documented facts in the public record beyond recognition, and its senior management has lawyered up, suing or threatening to sue just about every journalist, muckraker and government watchdog who's dared to shine a light on the firm's unique role as a torture profiteer.

Lately, the company's sights have been set squarely on Robert Greenwald, director of Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers, in which CACI plays a starring role. Greenwald has been in a back-and-forth with CACI's CEO, Jack London, and its lead attorney, William Koegel, during "months of calls, emails and letters" in what Greenwald calls a campaign to "intimidate, threaten and suppress" the story presented in the film.

"The threatening letters started early, trying to get us to back off," Greenwald told me. "We refused, and went back at them with a very strong letter saying, 'no, you're war profiteers and we won't be silenced.' Like any bully, they backed down when confronted. No lawsuit was filed-- they're a paper tiger."

The story they don't want told is of a federal contractor that, according to the Washington Post, gets 92 percent of its revenues in the "defense" sector. The Washington Business Journal reported that CACI's defense contracts almost doubled in the year after the occupation of Iraq began, and profits shot up 52 percent.

Yet CACI insists it isn't a war profiteer (a subjective term anyway), but was just answering an urgent call in Iraq. In a letter to Greenwald, Koegel wrote: "the army needed ... civilian contractors to work as interrogators" because the military didn't have the personnel, and CACI responded to the "urgent war-time circumstances" and "has no apologies."

But while the firm had experience in electronic surveillance and other intelligence functions, it, too, didn't have the interrogators. Barry Lando reported finding an ad on CACI's website for interrogators to send to Iraq, and noted that "experience in conducting tactical and strategic interrogations" was desired, but not necessary. According to a report by the Army inspector general, 11 of the 31 CACI interrogators in Iraq had no training in what most experts agree is one of the most sensitive areas of intelligence gathering. The 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, which was in charge of interrogations at Abu Ghraib when the abuses took place, didn't have a single trained interrogator at the facility.

"It's insanity," former CIA agent Robert Baer told The Guardian. "These are rank amateurs, and there is no legally binding law on these guys as far as I could tell. Why did they let them in the prison?"

That's one of many questions the company doesn't care to have asked. It's common for corporations to be fiercely protective of their brand's image, often obsessively so. That's true of multinationals selling soda pop or accounting services or military intelligence. But a company on a federal contract that rents out interrogators who become involved in a torture scandal that ends up splashed across the cover of Time Magazine -- that's the kind of thing that can be a real problem for the PR flacks back at corporate headquarters.

Colonel William Darley with the Military Review wrote of Abu Ghraib's impact:

We have never recovered from the Abu Ghraib thing. And it's likely all the time we're in Iraq, we never will. It will take a decade and beyond. I mean, those pictures, a hundred years from now, when the history of the Middle East is written, those things will be part and parcel of whatever textbook that Iraqis and Syrians and others are writing about the West. Those pictures. It's part of the permanent record. It's like that guy in Vietnam that got his head shot. It's just a permanent part of the history. That will never go away.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: iraq, torture, caci, abu ghraib

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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View:
So, Josh, when do you expect your letter? (NT)
Posted by: HeroesAll on Nov 21, 2006 12:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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» I'm also bemused by the name Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: I'm also bemused by the name Posted by: domenico234
simple
Posted by: rsaxto on Nov 21, 2006 12:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It' a simple case of government criminals hiring corporate criminals to do some of their dirty work. All of these immoral criminals should be thrown in jail.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: simple Posted by: willymack
» RE: simple Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: simple Posted by: DaddyJim
» RE: simple Posted by: rsaxto
Rsaxto...
Posted by: Intraspecto on Nov 21, 2006 2:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, you won again... but what is your secret to posting all the time???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: saxto... Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: Privatise, privatise Posted by: Edward George
» RE: Privatise, privatise Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: Privatise, privatise Posted by: Doubtom
What did you expect...?
Posted by: waves999 on Nov 21, 2006 3:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush family and their blue-blooded cronies - the Illuminati - make their main money in armaments, oil and drugs. That's where the big bucks are. So the Iraq war is all about armaments and oil - not terrorism or weapons of mass destruction. That was a lie. And the war in Afghanistan is all about armaments and drugs - not terrorism - the CIA has been in the drug business for years. And terrorism is simply a scare tactic they use to gain power by curtailing your freedoms... a tactic which your whole country has bought into big time. That’s what we are dealing with here folks. So war profiteering is simply part and parcel of the the Illuminati’s modus operandi. That’s why your country always need a war to keep it’s economy “healthy.” Your gu’mint is corrupt to the core. So what are you going to do about it...?!

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» Torture Posted by: derfb1
» No, the US just Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Torture Posted by: lively56
More rotten contractors - when are the hearings?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 21, 2006 5:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article! This example is very nasty but shows how the US government works these days. What's amazing is that they've gotten away with it to such an extent.

The use of mercenaries by the US government has got to stop. Here are a few more examples of this unpleasant trend:
*USA hires Pinochet's Chilean mercenaries to guard oil wells in Iraq at $4000/month.
*Are mercenary deaths reported to the public?

Corpwatch republished an excellent piece on mercenaries in Iraq by John Hanchette, Niagra Falls Reporter August 23rd, 2005

quote:
This dangerous conundrum is merely a symptom of a larger and more deadly cultural problem: corporate greed. For the Iraq war, when you think about it, is being conducted by the Bush administration on the same crippling and wrongheaded strategy that has become so popular with the big business greedheads who are ruining our economy and the nation for their own personal gain: drastically downsize the workforce to free up billions of untrackable dollars, then outsource the vital production services to like-minded privateers, whether they be American or foreign.

One could add that a lot of the military apparatchiks who sign these contracts can look forward to cushy executive jobs in the private war sector afterwards.

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Genocide for profit
Posted by: shangrilalad on Nov 21, 2006 5:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you reform a corrupt system of government made corrupt by corrupt law makers who profit from corruption? Looting the National Treasury is a time honored tradition in America.

We elect new leaders every two years but corrupt plutocrats can bribe and corrupt politicians faster than we elect them. Billions and billions of dollars are involved.

Someone one said, “You can have great wealth concentrated in a few hands, or you can have democracy, but you can’t have both.”

The only way to combat corruption is to attack the source of corruption.

The public financing of elections and the outlawing of all private campaign donations would simply drive the bribes under the table. Plutocrats would simply give cash bribes to make detection more difficult. Establishing a new oversight bureaucracy to investigate politicians and political appointee's financial holdings would help, but the plutocrats could get around that by directing deposits to a politician’s secret accounts in foreign banks.

The only way to control (not end) corruption is to strip plutocrats of their immense wealth.

Or maybe you don’t think our corruptions problems are that serious. Think again. Genocide for profit is pretty serious.

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» RE: Genocide for profit Posted by: scott balogh
» RE: Human decency and the New Deal Posted by: Edward George
wasn't Bush going to do something about this?
Posted by: DrXyzzy on Nov 21, 2006 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall Bush was going to put a stop to frivolous lawsuits. That and human-animal hybrids.

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Torture in the Open
Posted by: mite on Nov 21, 2006 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see torture from our media, government, and banks daily. Torture of liberty, constitution, bill of rights, and the 99% who built this country.
All you Congress people, Executives (government & CEO's) after we helped build this country you are sending it over seas
because billions of dollars is not enough. You blue bloods think them people in China, India, and the Middle East are ignorant- well history will prove you wrong.
There is only one option left for us in the U.S., many do not see but many do. We have sent you people in Washington D.C. (North American Union) and European Union a message. I hope you understand it. I am sure many feel the same way as our founding fathers "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death."

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from a muckraker
Posted by: wawa on Nov 21, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Connect the dots and you will WAKE UP

Ramallah, January 5, 2006- “The methods and photos from Abu Grahib and Guantanamo were no shock to any Palestinian who had been in prison between 1967 and the ‘80’s. All the methods used in Abu Grahib were normal procedures against Palestinians. In 1999 Internationals, Palestinians and Israelis for human rights threatened a boycott against Israel and that is what forced the Supreme Court to address the torture issue. They did not ban torture and the General Prosecutor can choose not to prosecute those who still use it."-Ala Jaradat of the organization ADAMEER WWW.ADDAMEER.ORG to me

excerpted Jan. 5 WAWA BLOG:

"Since 1967, 650,000 to 700,000 Palestinians have been arrested and detained. That totals 20% of the total population and 80% of all adult Palestinian males have been arrested.

“Most of these arrests occur after midnight when large numbers of IDF storm into neighborhoods or refugee camps, horrifying everyone and arresting anyone 14 years or older. Sometimes they storm into business offices and arrest the breadwinners of the families without any charges.

"These arrests and detentions are based on military orders; we live under a kind of Marshall Law which rules every aspect of Palestinian life: where we live, our license plates that restrict our movement and limited voting rights. Under these military orders the Israeli government is free to hold anyone eight days without accusations or charges. They can hold anyone up to 180 days for interrogation and up to 60 days without benefit of a lawyer.

”The Israeli government never agreed to the Second Geneva Convention, the Knesset never ratified it, and when it comes to the Occupied Territories they totally ignore it. Israel is the only State that approved torture of detainees. I know there are dictators who use torture, but Israel is the only State that supported torture until 1999. That is when International, Israeli and Palestinian pressure groups forced the issue and Barack was confronted about it when he visited the United States.

“The IDF will round up and arrest family members and use threats against their relatives to force confessions. The interrogations lead to Military Trials which is theoretically like court with three Judges presiding but only one is required to have an education and a law degree is not at all necessary. The Military Commander appoints the translators, issues all orders, assigns the judges, and has total control. One appeal is allowed, but if the judges are settlers the Palestinian is in deep shit!

“Administrative Detentions are issued by the Military Commander for a period of six months and the reason is always labeled ‘Security’ and the charges can be renewed indefinitely...

http://www.wearewideawake.org

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Who's CACI going to sue next?
Posted by: hagwind on Nov 21, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another excellent article, Mr. Holland -- I've started looking for your byline on AlterNet before I even notice what the story's about. I particularly like this line: "CACI's problem is, ultimately, with reality." If CACA [sic] could sue Reality, I'm sure it would.

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» RE: Who's CACI going to sue next? Posted by: Joshua Holland
Wayne Madsen:
Posted by: rwa on Nov 21, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During his testimony before the Senate Armed Service Committee, Rumsfeld was pressed upon by Senator John McCain about the role of the private contractors in the interrogations and abuse. McCain asked Rumsfeld four pertinent questions, ". . . who was in charge? What agency or private contractor was in charge of the interrogations? Did they have authority over the guards? And what were the instructions that they gave to the guards?"

When Rumsfeld had problems answering McCain's question, Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, the Deputy Commander of the U.S. Central Command, said there were 37 contract interrogators used in Abu Ghraib. The two named contractors, CACI and Titan, have close ties to the Israeli military and technology communities. Last January 14, after Provost Marshal General of the Army, Major General Donald Ryder, had already uncovered abuse at Abu Ghraib, CACI's President and CEO, Dr. J.P. (Jack) London was receiving the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah's Albert Einstein Technology award at the Jerusalem City Hall, with right-wing Likud politician Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz and ultra-Orthodox United Torah Judaism party Jerusalem Mayor Uri Lupolianski in attendance. Oddly, CACI waited until February 2 to publicly announce the award in a press release. CACI has also received grants from U.S.-Israeli bi-national foundations.

Titan also has had close connections to Israeli interests. After his stint as CIA Director, James Woolsey served as a Titan director. Woolsey is an architect of America's Iraq policy and the chief proponent of and lobbyist for Ahmad Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress. An adviser to the neo-conservative Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs, Project for the New American Century, Center for Security Policy, Freedom House, and Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, Woolsey is close to Stephen Cambone, the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, a key person in the chain of command who would have not only known about the torture tactics used by U.S. and Israeli interrogators in Iraq but who would have also approved them. Cambone was associated with the Project for the New American Century and is viewed as a member of Rumsfeld's neo-conservative "cabal" within the Pentagon.

Although it is still largely undocumented if any of the contractor named in the report of General Antonio Taguba were associated with the Israeli military or intelligence services, it is noteworthy that one, John Israel, who was identified in the report as being employed by both CACI International of Arlington, Virginia, and Titan, Inc., of San Diego, may not have even been a U.S. citizen. The Taguba report states that Israel did not have a security clearance, a requirement for employment as an interrogator for CACI. According to CACI's web site, "a Top Secret Clearance (TS) that is current and US citizenship" are required for CACI interrogators working in Iraq.

Speculation that "John Israel" may be an intelligence cover name has fueled speculation whether this individual could have been one of a number of Israeli interrogators hired under a classified contract. Because U.S. citizenship and documentation thereof are requirements for a U.S. security clearance, Israeli citizens would not be permitted to hold a Top Secret clearance. However, dual U.S.-Israeli citizens could have satisfied Pentagon requirements that interrogators hold U.S. citizenship and a Top Secret clearance.

According to a political appointee within the Bush administration and U.S. intelligence sources, the interrogators at Abu Ghraib included a number of Arabic-speaking Israelis who also helped U.S. interrogators develop the "R2I" (Resistance to Interrogation) techniques. Many of the torture methods were developed by the Israelis over many years of interrogating Arab prisoners on the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself.

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We Stand at the Crossroads
Posted by: wawa on Nov 21, 2006 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
excerpted from
http://www.crossleft.org/?q=node/2412

On a chilly overcast Saturday morning on November 18, 2006, in our Nations capital, a potentially historic gathering of a few, committed, thoughtful progressive Christians gathered in the Washington Plaza Hotel.


Key note speaker Naomi Wolf, feminist author, Co-founder of the Woodhull Institute and Rhodes Scholar addressed our group:

"I am here as a Jew and a friend and supporter of what you are doing. You are at a formative moment and as a social critic I see the time for a mass political left movement such as this could confronts theocracy and you have a tremendous potential to take back the country.

"As a Jew, much of what I have been hearing encourages but also worries me. You must move forward without creating the same mistakes of the religious right! Fewer than a hundred people are here, but I see this could be the groundswell for the alliance of a multi-faith social justice movement.

"You are at the Crossroads.

"Remember checks and balances? Remember when we had three distinct branches of government? As a Jew, I warn you and offer a manifesto to confront the religious right. You must separate religion from politics! The idea of an enlightened religious left is essential for the national debate and the multiplicity of voices is good for democracy. The heavily funded hegemony seeking right wing causes my tribe to recollect and worry us. We Jews share a collective memory of the Crusades and Christian theocracies that were violent towards us.

"There is no way a Jew can see the religious right and not think of the Crusaders! Yes, violence has been chosen as the way in all religions, but nothing is more disastrous than one who has political power to torture!"

read the rest @
http://www.crossleft.org/?q=node/2412

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Update: From Randi Rhodes, via e-mail ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Nov 21, 2006 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I learn that CACI is appealing the summary judgment against them, and the case of CACI vs. Rhodes continues.

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Money Quote
Posted by: YinRising on Nov 21, 2006 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It's insanity," former CIA agent Robert Baer told The Guardian. "These are rank amateurs, and there is no legally binding law on these guys as far as I could tell. Why did they let them in the prison?"

Baer asks the question AFTER giving the answer.

QUESTION:"Why did they let them in the prison?"

ANSWER: "These are rank amateurs, and there is no legally binding law on these guys as far as I could tell."

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No more interrogator jobs...
Posted by: badkitty on Nov 21, 2006 9:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm, a quick glance on CACI's website shows no job postings for "Interrogators", which I remember seeing in May 2004. Perhaps they're using another job title now, but with over 800 listings all over the country and the world, they are hiring...

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Shame on Alternet for promoting Glenn Beck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Nov 21, 2006 10:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody find it rather odd that Alternet is advertising for Mr. Rightwinger punk Glenn Beck (excuse me while I puke)?!? The advertisement is above to the left. At first I saw the title “Exposed. The Extremist Agenda” with a picture of mr. right-wing idiot and I thought it was an advertisement for some program showing what a homophobic idiot with an agenda he is. Well, it ends up it is an advertisement for my favorite person’s special on CNN News about what airs in the middle east against the U.S.
No doubt the underlying purpose of his special program will be to fuel more fear of, and anger at, middle easterners, with the goal of justifying further war and turmoil, in other words, the promotion of the agenda of the republican party; hey, isn’t that what Glenn boy is all about?!?
Glenn-boy is so right wing, one would not even know if the program is true or fabricated to further his agenda. So why the hell is Alternet taking his money?!?
Shame on Alternet for advertising for this moron!

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» No, just not Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» One more time ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
mary lou
Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Nov 21, 2006 11:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you post the names and addresses of all CACI (I always read 'caca') executives. There is probably no way to get these slugs legally but the public could send them postcards telling them what we think of them. London and his cohorts probably go to church even so we could post signs around the local churches etc.

SO disgusting!!

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2007, yet another American crossroads
Posted by: eddie torres on Nov 21, 2006 1:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The saga of CACI, Titan, and the other contractors linked to CPA fraud and Iraq profiteering will serve over the next year as a litmus test for US democracy. Will these tales of corruption make it to the mainstream US conscience via Congressional investigations and corporate media attention? Or will wheeling-and-dealing between the various wings of the Privilege Party doom the American Democratic Experiment to business-as-usual?

As Evan Derkacz pointed out, in a February Zogby poll of US troops in Iraq "85% said the US mission is mainly 'to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks...'"

Waiting for the poll that says "85% of Americans ready to take responsibility for their actions and inactions."

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Ohio Has An Employee For CACI
Posted by: bob t on Nov 21, 2006 2:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jeffery Miller, the military man who heaped shame upon himself, his family(daddy what did you do during the war), the US military, the State of Ohio, the city of Gallipolis, Ohio where he lives, and our entire country was the commander at GITMO and then led Abu Ghraib to it's torture scandals would be the right employee for CACI or Titan, or to work under Alberto Gonzales in the DOJ. Sgt. Gonzales is another corruption to american law and our now shredded Constitution.

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we have become just like the terrorists
Posted by: kellysgarden on Nov 21, 2006 2:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have become just what Bush said we were fighting against. Only we are worse, because we "claimed" we were moral. What hypocrits those neo-cons are.

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exactly how a psychopath would respond.
Posted by: Don Garb on Nov 21, 2006 7:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I'll be. I JUST downloaded a book on psychopaths called "The Mask of Sanity". In it there is some very useful advice on how to spot a psychopath. When you accuse them of some excessive lack of sensitivity, they will always respond by whining about how THEY are the victim and the injured party. So when lawyers file suit against these creeps their reaction is to cry libel! So typical.

I've also noticed, from experience, that when the psychopath knows you are onto them, that they have been outed, they don't bother with keeping up the expensive pretense of appearing human. They become the snarling, rabid, inhuman monster they always were underneath.

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» strange how every post... Posted by: zipper696
Corporate excess may be just a symptom
Posted by: eddie torres on Nov 21, 2006 11:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See 'Laugh? We nearly cried' by Tim Harford (Financial Times, July 16 2005) and 'The lunatic you work for' by The Economist, (May 6 2004). Both address corporate excess through a review of the documentary "The Corporation". Both present ways to shift the blame for corporate excess onto individuals and governments:

"We the consumers, not corporations, are the ones driving the cars, buying the junk and drinking the milkshakes. We, and the governments we elect, would achieve more if we weren't so happy to make the corporations our scapegoats."

and

"As long as corporations are expected to provide charity to workers making unsellable products, or are blamed for our love of fatty food, governments escape their responsibilities."

Perhaps the societies that produce the psycho-corporations deserve more in-depth scrutiny. Especially since I can personally profit and financially secure my retirement by betting on their depravity.

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As an editor of a student news site this worries me
Posted by: chomsky on Nov 21, 2006 11:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If people can not make even the most basic of logical inferences without corporate lawyers badgering them, how are we supposed to have a free press? I am getting tired of journalists being picked on for reporting the stories, as a way to shift focus away from the people who are actually the subjects of the stories.

How backwards is that? Someone reports war crimes, and is persecuted for REPORTING them, but the person who actually COMMITS the war crime gets off scott free? Wow.

Ian Elwood
New College Clarion

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The lie
Posted by: Gregor on Nov 22, 2006 4:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THe private contractors want you to believe they are necessary because the military doesn't "have" certain types of specialties in the army. That is just not true. The military is a highly developed system serving many special areas. The problem is war profiteering. Again, the money goes to Bush's cronies. For anyone to suggest the army, navy, airforce, etc. doesn't have something is ludicrous. It has been built and manned by specialists and unique positions for years since WWI. Get real people. Suck the life from those profiteers!

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» RE: The lie Posted by: zipper696
EXCUSE ME???
Posted by: LuckyCharm on Nov 22, 2006 9:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are you getting your information? "The 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, which was in charge of interrogations at Abu Ghraib when the abuses took place, didn't have a single trained interrogator." I was a trained interrogator (since 1982) assigned to the 205th over there, and I can ASSURE you I was one of HUNDREDS! Please check your facts -- there is no way that statement is even close to being true!

~~Cheryl

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» Imprecise sentence Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Corrected ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: XCUSE ME??? Posted by: Betsyny